How Can You Belive In a God that Damns your children?

This is a hard question, one that not many parents which to take into consideration. What if my, very own children are condemned to Hell by the God I love?

The truth is, your children are not only your children but children of God, and all moral accountability is ultimately directed to God. For perhaps the greatest answer ever given to this question by one of the worlds best philosophers, click here or the link below:

http://www.reasonablefaith.org/worshiping-a-god-who-might-damn-your-children

Advertisements

36 thoughts on “How Can You Belive In a God that Damns your children?

  1. “The Christian doctrine of Hell is a theological fabrication”? Arkenaten is full of it. I remember believing this before I read the new testament. In my favorite gospel alone, Jesus constantly refers to sinners being cast into flames, and gnashing their teeth in the darkness. While the details of our modern conception of hell may have been imagined by Dante and Milton, the concept of the non-earthly Gehenna is very much one of Jesus’s. The name Hell came later, from Norse mythology, where Hel, daughter of Loki, is queen of the underworld, Niflheim (literally “the mist world”).

    Like

  2. Clearly not. Neither of us did, until I looked it up in a dictionary on the biblical concepts.

    You need to remember to check on your own comments as well as mine .
    Here y’go.

    “You obviouslyt have no idea what Gehenna is then, I take it?”

    Nope, haven’t heard of it before. Searched it up on Google, apparently it’s a small valley in Jerusalem that is used as some sort of analogue/analogy in the Bible for Hell.

    Like

    • I remember my comments. This is the chronology of my research;

      1. I searched up ‘Gehenna’ on Google. Read the first thing. It was a small valley in Jerusalem.
      2. Later, I looked up Gehenna again because I needed to know more about it. This time, I found two very useful biblical dictionary entries on Gehenna. That’s where I got my detailed information from (about the carcasses, burning, and whatnot).

      Like

      • yes,, but I had mentioned it before you scuttled off to look it up on Google.
        I suggest you are quite likely a relatively New Convert to Christianity or simply a product of Western Indoctrination where keeping believers mostly in the dark is standard fare, as it has throughout most of Christianity’s chequered history.

        Like

      • “yes,, but I had mentioned it before you
        scuttled off to look it up on Google.”

        Err.. If I don’t know about a topic you mention, why *wouldn’t* I look it up? How exactly is researching an opponents claim a bad thing?

        “No, I was not wrong.
        The different terms used, Hades, Gehenna,etc to describe a place of eternal torment for Christians were basically rolled into one and called Hell.
        Check your bible.”

        No, you were wrong. You claimed that the biblical concept of Hell was basically ‘borrowed’ from Gehenna, when Gehenna is merely an analogue.

        And if your current position is simply that ‘Hades’ and ‘Gehenna’ are biblical terms used to refer to a place of torment… Then what is the argument? Who cares? Ah yes, here is your argument:

        “The Church merely extrapolated this to formulate the erroneous Dante-like nonsense of Hell that can be seen in Revelation – which was initially rejected for inclusion in the canon by the way, as it was regarded as fraudulent – and has been preached throughout much of Christian history.”

        Basically, you outright invent a series of events to try to make the Bible at fault. Revelation also was never ‘rejected’, it was simply debated for a very, very long time, until finally being unanimously accepted sometime in either the 3rd or 4th century. There is no historical evidence for anything except debate on the issue.

        “It is important to remind you of the Chariot Wheel Incident because you continue to post erroneous, unsubstantiated material and, if you , like many others, are so damn credulous regarding Wyatt’s utterly ridiculous claims then there is every reason to suspect that you will be credulous over other outrageous claims. ”

        Again, more complete nonsense. I don’t follow Ron Wyatt (in fact I reject all his claims), I never did follow Wyatt, and you are making more unsubstantiated nonsense. One error about 8 months ago (probably more) is entirely meaningless, since I have acknowledged that error perhaps repeatedly since. And once again, I have found a much, much longer list of errors in your arguments then you could hope of claiming against mines. Epic of Gilgamesh, Kitchen supposedly never having published a single paper on the Exodus, etc, etc, etc — those are only some of the most recent. Your desperate attempt to try to take away my credibility won’t work. And finally;

        “Still waiting for your citation regarding the supposed two years spent at Kadesh Barnea and the later return?”

        I need no citation for this, because there’s no evidence in the first place supporting a 38-year tenure in Kadesh Barnea from the Bible. In fact, it makes little to no sense.

        Liked by 1 person

      • I don’t follow Ron Wyatt (in fact I reject all his claims), I never did follow Wyatt, and you are making more unsubstantiated nonsense.

        I never said you followed Wyatt – which would be a miracle in any case as he is dead.
        All I stated was you reference to his claim of chariot wheels on the floor of the Red Sea.
        An erroneous claim coupled with geographic and textual ignorance which showed your glaring credulity and was an immediate red flag.

        Revelation also was never ‘rejected’, it was simply debated for a very, very long time, until finally being unanimously accepted

        Absolutely correct. My mistake. My word , usage was most definitely wrong, as it was debated just as you say for a long time, and thus the last book to be accepted for the canon.
        Although according to Wiki some Nestorian churches do reject it. Something I was unaware of.
        Today, most scholars consider it an anonymous piece of writing, as they do the gospels.

        Epic of Gilgamesh

        I have no idea what you mean by this. Noah’s flood was adapted from this tale.

        No, you were wrong. You claimed that the biblical concept of Hell was basically ‘borrowed’ from Gehenna, when Gehenna is merely an analogue.

        Kitchen supposedly never having published a single paper on the Exodus,

        Nope, Kitchen has not to date published a peer-reviewed paper on the Exodus.
        His area of expertise is Egyptology, he is after all an Egyptologist and respected as such but none of his writings concerning Egyptology where he claims relate to the biblical tale of the Exodus have ever been accepted (peer reviewed)

        need no citation for this, because there’s no evidence in the first place supporting a 38-year tenure in Kadesh Barnea from the Bible. In fact, it makes little to no sense.

        The bible itself is not evidence enough for you then?
        So basically you are simply making stuff up or lying through your teeth.

        Like

      • “All I stated was you reference to his claim of chariot wheels on the floor of the Red Sea.”

        Again, many, many many months ago. Not relevant to our discussion. Can you disprove the biblical texts? Can you disprove Noonan’s study, Hoffmeier’s arguments for the exodus?

        “Absolutely correct. My mistake. My word , usage was most definitely wrong, as it was debated just as you say for a long time, and thus the last book to be accepted for the canon.”

        Praise God! Good to see you can admit a mistake.

        “I have no idea what you mean by this. Noah’s flood was adapted from this tale [, the Epic of Gilgamesh].”

        As I explained earlier (perhaps you missed it when I put down this claim earlier), anyone who has read the Epic of Gilgamesh (like myself) knows that the flood narrative in it is obviously a later addition. Although the tablets of the Epic of Gilgamesh go back to 2000 BC, none of them contain the flood narrative until 600 BC, well after the tradition of the biblical flood narrative was around. Meaning the biblical narrative easily predates the flood narrative in the Epic of Gilgamesh.

        “Nope, Kitchen has not to date published a peer-reviewed paper on the Exodus.
        His area of expertise is Egyptology, he is after all an Egyptologist and respected as such but none of his writings concerning Egyptology where he claims relate to the biblical tale of the Exodus have ever been accepted (peer reviewed)”

        Again, I have also shown this is false. Go go Google Scholar, type in ‘Kenneth Kitchen exodus’, and the first three results will be peer-reviewed papers in academic journals by Kitchen relating to the exodus. I even linked one of them for you earlier — I will note them all.

        1. ‘The Exodus’ published to the Anchor Bible Dictionary.
        2. ‘Egyptians and Hebrews, from Ra ‘amses to Jericho’ published to Ben-Guryon University of the Negev Press
        3. ‘From the Brickfields of Egypt’ published to Tyndale Bulletin

        Furthermore, all three of these papers have been cited by other scholars many, many times, and Kitchen has also wrote about the Exodus in his book On The Reliability of the Old Testament, also a peer-reviewed book and one of the most influential books in Old Testament scholarship published in the 21st century as of yet. The book was published to Eerdmans Publishing, by the way.

        “The bible itself is not evidence enough for you then?
        So basically you are simply making stuff up or lying through your teeth.”

        More nonsense. Please show where the Bible says the Israelite’s were at Kadesh Barnea for 38 years. Quote the text. Quote entire chapters. Quote entire books if need be. But please demonstrate your reasoning, either in a response or a blog post or whatever you want.

        Like

      • Although the tablets of the Epic of Gilgamesh go back to 2000 BC, none of them contain the flood narrative until 600 BC, well after the tradition of the biblical flood narrative was around. Meaning the biblical narrative easily predates the flood narrative in the Epic of Gilgamesh.

        As the Epic of Gilgamesh also draws from earlier Akkadian and Sumerian flood myths I’ll need a citation please or a link to show the veracity of your assertion.
        Also, I sincerely hope you aren’t suggesting Noah’s flood was a real historical event?

        Like

      • “As the Epic of Gilgamesh also draws from earlier Akkadian and Sumerian flood myths I’ll need a citation please or a link to show the veracity of your assertion.
        Also, I sincerely hope you aren’t suggesting Noah’s flood was a real historical event?”

        Noah’s flood happened. I’d had to repeat posting the exact same links, but you’re a tiresome one. Perhaps I’ll have to write a blog on the flood simply so I needn’t constantly address your re-assertions and simply link you the post every time.

        Here are two links that should get you going:

        http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/evidence-for-a-flood-102813115/

        https://jamesbishopblog.com/2015/01/11/the-genesis-flood-scripture-history-and-science-indicate-a-local-flood/

        As for a citation to the fact that the only known Epic of Gilgamesh tablet containing a flood dates to about 600 BC (7th century BC), this should suffice:

        http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/collection_object_details.aspx?objectId=309929&partId=1

        Like

      • Hilarious. The flood happened, as is simply fact. I gave links to aid your majestic nonsense but it looks as if research isn’t your strong point. This is not surprising however, given your quick to make outright nonsensical assertions most of the time.

        Like

      • Number 33. New International Version

        36 They left Ezion Geber and camped at Kadesh, in the Desert of Zin.

        37 They left Kadesh and camped at Mount Hor, on the border of Edom.
        38 At the Lord’s command Aaron the priest went up Mount Hor, where he died on the first day of the fifth month of the fortieth year after the Israelites came out of Egypt.
        39 Aaron was a hundred and twenty-three years old when he died on Mount Hor.

        As the Israelites arrived at Kadesh in the third year of their journey it is a fairly straightforward piece of arithmetic. 40 years minus two years. Answer: 38 years.

        For further confirmation, Moses was 80 and his brother, Aaron was 83 when they made their demands of Pharaoh.
        As Aaron died when he was 123 the math is also straightforward.
        123-83= 40.

        Like

      • “The Church merely extrapolated this to formulate the erroneous Dante-like nonsense of Hell that can be seen in Revelation

        Which is correct.
        Christians claiming Jesus talked about an eternal place of torture … Hell … as is described in popular culture and has been used for centuries is blatantly false. Gehenna was, as you noted I beleive, an ancient rubbish/dumping ground outside of Jerusalem in the vale of Gihon. ( check fr spelling), and this is what Jesus was referring to.

        Like

      • “Christians claiming Jesus talked about an eternal place of torture … Hell … as is described in popular culture and has been used for centuries is blatantly false. Gehenna was, as you noted I beleive, an ancient rubbish/dumping ground outside of Jerusalem in the vale of Gihon. ( check fr spelling), and this is what Jesus was referring to.”

        As I literally mentioned in my previous comment, Gehenna was used as an analogue to Hell, not the actual Hell. No Christian, nor Jesus, has ever believed that after you die, you’re going to a dump in Jerusalem. This blatant misrepresentation of the words of Jesus, and basically dismissal of basic logic, is amazing.

        Like

      • Then is no ”Hell” as popularized by the church. They made it up. It is a fiction.
        Jesus never preached an eternal Hell as he was Jewish and Jews do not believe in an eternal Hell or place of eternal torture and damnation.
        This is why he used Gehenna as an analogue for those who would be cast aside as it was the one place Jews would know of and was a real place.
        So just to be perfectly clear on this issue.
        Jesus never preached a doctrine of Hell as understood and preached by the church as an eternal place of torture because he was Jewish and Jews did not believe in such a place and would have considered the idea ludicrous..
        I hope I have made myself clear on this issue. Sorry for any past misunderstanding.

        I’ll try to get to your other comment tomorrow. It’s late down here.

        Like

      • “Then is no ”Hell” as popularized by the church. They made it up. It is a fiction.’

        What a fanciful wish you have.

        “Jesus never preached an eternal Hell as he was Jewish and Jews do not believe in an eternal Hell or place of eternal torture and damnation.”

        Did the internet tell you that as well?

        Daniel 12:2 Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.

        It’s almost too funny to claim that Jews and Jesus could not have believed in an eternal hell… Even though Jews almost entirely wrote the New Testament.

        So, simply asserting things doesn’t work for any form of argument. I could easily have dismissed your entire comment in its entirety without addressing a single point, simply because there is no substance nor any evidence behind it that you have put forth. I’m sorry to tell you, but the mere fact that you said it doesn’t give it any weight.

        Like

      • Lol… you are the funniest and probably most blatantly ignorant fundamentalist I have come across to date.
        And you make my night and quote Danial!
        The gods you are just hilarious.

        Like

      • Still waiting for your citation regarding the supposed two years spent at Kadesh Barnea and the later return?
        I take it you are aware of the text in Numbers that shows this to be untenable, yes?
        You do read your bible I take it?

        Like

  3. I told you about Gehenna, I told you about DCT and I told how stupid was your belief in the story of chariot wheels on the bottom of the Red Sea, and I also told you that the Red Sea was a mistranslation.
    And if memory serves, I even informed you about the fraudulent arsehole who pushed this stupid belief, the late Ron Wyatt.

    Like

    • “I told you about Gehenna, I told you about DCT and I told how stupid was your belief in the story of chariot wheels on the bottom of the Red Sea, and I also told you that the Red Sea was a mistranslation.”

      1. Yes, you told me about DCT. Thank you.
      2. Yes, you told me about Gehenna, thank you. Although, you were wrong about its implications on the origins of hell and heaven.
      3. I honestly think it’s been almost a year since the wheel nonsense, even if you were the one who corrected me. Seriously, why do you hold on for so long to this thing that has been gone for so long? Does it make you that happy that you scored one time on my in our conversations? Would you like it if, 8 months past today, I brought up the Epic of Gilgamesh thing on you?
      4. Thanks for telling me about the red sea thing. By the way, if I recall correctly, you misrepresented James Hoffmeier not too long ago by promulgating the idea that he was somehow unaware of the entire translation thing. He most certainly isn’t.

      As for Ron Wyatt, he certainly made no discoveries. He was perhaps a little too quick to claim that he had proved the Bible, eh?

      Like

      • Yes, you told me about Gehenna, thank you. Although, you were wrong about its implications on the origins of hell and heaven.

        No, I was not wrong.
        The different terms used, Hades, Gehenna,etc to describe a place of eternal torment for Christians were basically rolled into one and called Hell.
        Check your bible.
        The Church merely extrapolated this to formulate the erroneous Dante-like nonsense of Hell that can be seen in Revelation – which was initially rejected for inclusion in the canon by the way, as it was regarded as fraudulent – and has been preached throughout much of Christian history.

        It is important to remind you of the Chariot Wheel Incident because you continue to post erroneous, unsubstantiated material and, if you , like many others, are so damn credulous regarding Wyatt’s utterly ridiculous claims then there is every reason to suspect that you will be credulous over other outrageous claims. And based on the history of your blog this has in fact panned out..
        The Epic of Gilgamesh has been known for a long, long time. maybe not among ignorant Christians, willfully so or otherwise, but those genuinely interested in the truth have long been aware of the real history of the Biblical Flood.
        You may be some sort of rookie apologist , and I am sorry to say that you write somewhat as a child might regarding your new found faith in your god, but please, do not think that everyone around you is in a similar state of abject ignorance, my friend.

        Like

      • “Ah, so are you referencing Revelation?
        The character Jesus never mentioned such a place , you are aware of this?”

        Jesus said…
        Luke 13:28: There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth in that place, when you see Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but yourselves thrown out.

        So, where is it that there is weeping and gnashing of teeth? You should probably read the entirety of Luke 13 here.

        Like

      • You obviouslyt have no idea what Gehenna is then, I take it?
        *Sigh* just another ignorant delusional fundamentalist.
        Bu please keep going. You are doing a fine job for your cult.

        Like

      • “You obviouslyt have no idea what Gehenna is then, I take it?”

        Nope, haven’t heard of it before. Searched it up on Google, apparently it’s a small valley in Jerusalem that is used as some sort of analogue/analogy in the Bible for Hell.

        Furthermore, you do yourself no favors by repeatedly calling me an ‘ignorant delusional fundamentalist’. You’re scoring no internet debating points by doing this, nor are you showing that you are a respectful person.

        Like

      • I have no interest in internet point scoring, but merely demonstrating to those reading along that you are an ignorant delusional fundamentalist, and on that I am doing extremely well.

        So … don’t let me stop you, you are doing a sterling job for atheism.

        Like

      • “I have no interest in internet point scoring, but merely demonstrating to those reading along that you are an ignorant delusional fundamentalist, and on that I am doing extremely well.”

        All those reading have already dismissed you due to your rather weak arguments and obnoxious attitude. Seriously, who have you convinced to date?

        Like

      • Really?
        You had no idea what DCT was , you are unaware that the Chriatian notion of hell is a simple theological fabrication and you were unaware that the character referred to Gehenna or what it was until you looked it up.

        You continue to show yourself to be nothing but an ignorant indoctrinated fundamentalist.

        Like

      • “You had no idea what DCT was , you are unaware that the Chriatian notion of hell is a simple theological fabrication and you were unaware that the character referred to Gehenna or what it was until you looked it up.”

        I’m not amazingly interested in philosophy, and so I find as much reason to think that I should be familiar with the DCT as the average American should be familiar with the ancient land of Ur.

        And of course, you ridiculously claim that hell was a Christian invention based on Gehenna, even though Gehenna was a small region in Jerusalem that only served as an analogue for the concept of Hell.

        I looked Gehenna up in an academic dictionary on biblical concepts and whatnot, and the reason why Gehenna is used as an analogue immediately becomes very clear. Once again, Gehenna was a valley somewhere in southern Jerusalem, and in ancient times, even more ancient then the ministry of Jesus itself, idolatrous Jews would actually sacrifice children in this location to a deity called Molech. Then, Gehenna pretty much became a ‘garbage dump’, where the carcasses of animals, criminals, and all sorts of filth was thrown into, and continuously burned there. Thus, Gehenna itself became a region in ancient Israel (especially Jerusalem) to sort of portray the idea of everlasting destruction of the wicked and whatnot.

        So, Hell was not invented “based off of Gehenna”, I never heard such a ludicrous claim in my life. However, I do have to thank you, and I am reminded exactly why I keep up my conversations with you. Your claims allow me to research many things I otherwise would be unfamiliar with, and some of it allows me to have a greater understanding and grasp on the Bible. Amen!

        Like

      • “Why are you telling me about Gehenna?
        I know what it was.”

        Clearly not. Neither of us did, until I looked it up in a dictionary on the biblical concepts.

        “The Christian doctrine of Hell is a theological fabrication.”

        More assertions that don’t qualify as arguments.

        Like

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s